Statue Wars!
Other
I am beginning to think I am living in an alternative universe. Now they want to take down Baden Powell's statue because back in the day he was homophobic. Wasn't everyone back in the early 1900s? Thankfully we have moved on from it being a crime, practically into the early 60s. Did you know that the last witchcraft trial took place in 1939?!
Why are we all so eager to rewrite history with a list of 400 statues they are talking of removing. Most of them were people who just lived as everyone lived in their times and when things we abhor now were considered totally ok. It doesn't make it right in our eyes but it wasn't wrong in theirs.
It is very different to having statues of folk like Hitler, Idi Amin and others whose evil deeds were evil at any time in history.
Instead why not have plaques on statues stating the deeds they are remembered for but reminding us of their outdated views which would be deemed horrendous now. A good learning curve for family discussions if they see one of these statues.
Should we really be destroying the good these people did because they held the views of their time?
Caesar was the greatest Roman general but enslaved millions of people of all colours as he swept over the empire. How far back do we go?
Lynibis no I do, I’m as confused on where you draw the line and what do you stop at? If we are are to start rewriting history people need to start removing a lot of different things in people’s lives which they aren’t going to like
They shouldn't be removed, that our history. Should we not look at the royal family as we do now because of Queen Victoria was a slave trader. Its gone to far if you ask me and police and government need to actually do something.
I agree part of the History of the country, we can't just pretend things never happened just because times have changed or things have gone out of fashion. These things are reminders of how far we have come and how we got to where we are today.
Here is a little story Ann1984.
When I worked for the council my office overlooked a square paved area, surrounded on all 4 sides with offices, corridors etc.
It was an ugly space but one day some bright council spark decided (at great cost) to place a statue of Leda and the Swan slap bang in the middle. Look it up on Google but basically it was an aggressive Swan raping Leda. Adults who entered my office commented on how horrible it was and children would ask their parents 'what is that big bird doing to the lady'. Many folk complained (not one person said they liked it) but as far as I know it is still there. I know what message that sends to me.
Very true but I am a great advocate for self education. If I passed a statue of someone I had never heard of I would look him/her up when I got home.
Lynibis I think there are other things which we could worry more about....Like modern slavery?????Because it is still exist
AgnesFaludi I have already made that point in another thread. Which strengthens my argument because slavery is not exclusive to one race or colour. White slavery has always been around and still is....especially in the sex industry.
Not sure what your comment meant, with all the queries, in relation to mine about self education. We need to be informed in order to understand why we are asking for the changes we want.
Lynibis I forgot that we invented slavery in the 18th Century .................................... Oh wait ....... How about the Greeks , Romans , Egyptians , Vikings, Huns, Incas , Aztecs , American Indians , African tribes ............... I could go on .
I'm of course not saying slavery is right but the snowflakes should realise it has been around since the dawn of the human race and still is .
If the "entitled " generation took an interest in History rather than obeyed what they are instructed on Facebook and developed minds and views of their own ...............
Oh well not going to happen is it .
Golfforall fantastic comment. Anyone who has been on here for a while will know that I am passionate about history to the extent I practically live in the past! You can watch films from Charlton Heston in Ben Hur right up to Taken with Liam Neeson. Both fictional I know but accurate of the times they are set in, thousands of years apart.
PS Golfforall we must also remember Wilberforce who campaigned tirelessly to abolish slavery at the expense of his health and well being. For anyone interested enough to educate themselves whilst watching an enjoyable film it is call Amazing Grace. Within that is also the story of the guy who wrote that hymn who was originally the captain of a slave ship, repented and spent the rest of his life making amends. He also became blind hence the line 'I once was blind, but now I see' but his seeing was spiritual, not physical.
Lynibis I love historical films ,dramas and documentaries . They show how our society and "civilisation " evolved . We can't change the past but we can certainly learn from it without expunging all traces of the bits we aren't comfortable with .
I even love "Call the Midwife " , not normally my sort of thing - A fascinating insight into fairly recent social history. How would todays "snowflakes " survive in times as recent as those ?
Golfforall exactly.......and I remember those times and can vouch for the speed of change, it accelerates as time goes by. If you think of the luxury of life in Roman times BC with baths and steam rooms, cleanliness and democracy of a sort, then fast forward well over a thousand years to the grime and unpleasant conditions of medieval times, even for the nobility, unbelievable! Then for a couple of hundred years again nothing changed except for a few minor things until the agricultural revolution. A daughter would dress and act like her mother for another couple of hundred years. Now look at what has changed in the last 60 years and the speed of it, in another 30 years we will not recognise today!
People are trying to erase history! We need to keep even the most brutal parts of our history so we can learn from it and make sure it doesn't happen again. Slavery unfortunately still happens today and it is not exclusive to one race, we should be trying to tackle that, not worrying about who there is a statue of. They have a statue for the good things they did, not for the views they held, which back when were held by the majority of people. Yes racism is wrong and we need to stop it, but removing statues is not going to do anything about it and it will cause us to lose part of our history and people will forget why we removed the statues in the first place! Just my opinion ofcourse.
Just seen this ......
BBC News - Statue of slave owner Picton should be removed, says descendant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52999082
In the pic, what has the nearest statue got in their hand? 
Naughty Chimp.....It is very obviously the hilt of a sword lol!
As a by note I think the descendant is pre-empting any calls for its removal and blatantly virtue signalling.
Although none of this is a laughing matter, this picture gave me cause to smile today
Not quite sure if it is saying something (how ignorant am I) but it is definitely a funny image.
I think it's brilliant they're being removed. If there was a statue of Jimmy Saville up I'm sure we wouldn't keep that up for his charitable contributions would we. It's not about erasing our history it's about not celebrating people with a statue who were racist and enslaved people. A statue isn't put up purely for historical reasons, it's put up to celebrate a person, so why would you want to celebrate someone like that? Instead, put it in the history books, teach children about these people, put them in museums. But don't celebrate them by displaying their statues in city centres.
You seem to totally miss the point lornaae. At no point in history has Paedophilia been acceptable and therefore at no point in time would a statue be put up celebrating the life of one.
No one would condone statues that are put up to commemorate an evil person like Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, nazi war criminals, chairman Mao, etc. But if you follow your logic we would have to take down every statue everywhere because all were guilty of homophobia, sexual inequality, condoning slavery, if not directly shipping or owning them. Even statues of people like Cleopatra, Bodicea and every monarch up to the 19th century as they all indulged in slavery, mass murder and a long list of other 'crimes' which were acceptable historically.
Jimmy Saville's crimes were committed knowingly, not in a time when his grotesque acts were acceptable to society.
Lynibis I don't think I'm missing the point at all. Why would you be mad that a statue of a racist and someone who played a big part in slavery was torn down? Just because slavery was common during the time it took place, doesn't mean it was or is ok, nor should we celebrate those that were the perpetrators of it.
lornaae maybe you should read again and you will MAYBE understand. You cannot look at 18th 19th century life through 21st century eyes. Hardly anyone condemned slavery back then so you are condemning whole generations of people. No, to us it was totally wrong, repulsive and disgusting but not to them. I don't know if you have read all of my comments on here but maybe you should read the one about Wilberforce and Amazing Grace and my one below. It is beginning to sound as if you think I am condoning slavery when in fact I am putting myself in the shoes of our ancestors who acted in a way we more enlightened generations cannot condone. The difference is I can understand and I wonder just how far we need to go back to erase the history of everything we now know better about. I am Libran, the scales of balance and justice and in life you have to have the ability to see both sides of everything.
Here is another way of looking at it:
I am not a vegetarian and lots of folk already think that is horrendous. Well suppose I had spent my life doing charitable work, invented a vaccine for covid19 or any other number of good things and they decided to put up a statue of me to honour my legacy. Move on a few decades where we may very well be living lives totally without eating meat. Would it then be ok to pull down my statue, beat it with sticks, daub it with paint and graffiti?
Omg, she was an awful person because she used to eat meat....shock horror.
Lynibis I would also like all religions to be dissolved due to the history of racism, homophobic behaviour,sexist behaviour etc
Lynibis ah yes I see what you mean, I have changed my comment because like you say religion isn’t supposed to be mentioned!
AliceBell64468 I may be wrong but I think Getsome was being sarcastic/ironic if you read the comments we made at top of this thread. I believe he/she was likening it to trying to rewrite history. I could be wrong but that is how I took it. I am a believer and I would hate to be persecuted because of my faith. However, I firmly believe that religion has been hijacked by evil people to perpetuate war and hatred and serve their own ends. I will say no more as religion is banned on here.
AliceBell64468 Point i was getting is where do you stop? The reason i said religion is the crimes they have committed have been horrendous and if we are to start rewriting history then i cant see people starting to take religious statues down.
I believe we are all one race, the human race. We have all done things in the past that could be considered racist,sexist,homophobic. Going through school i would call someone gay and laugh, but as you mature more and realise WTF am i doing! I hate the fact i send those things and i will never use it in a derogatory way again and the same goes for racism! Take statues down but they should be stored in a museum to remind us how we were and how we shall never return to.
We are not born Racist or Homophobic, That **** is taught!
Getsome The kids in our school were the same, but calling someone gay didn't come into our heads. We didn't know what gay was.
Talking about gay men, why do a lot of them suddenly start speaking in a 'gay' voice?
Maybe I'm uneducated and gay men suddenly start speaking like Alan Carr after a certain amount of time?
TheChimpi dont know why people talk high pitched but hey if they are happy then crack on. Parents have a lot to answer for regarding peoples approach to racism and sexism.
TheChimp one of my dearest male friends is gay but if you met him you wouldn't know it, there is nothing in his character or demeanour that suggests it. So, like you I get confused by all the variants of sexuality, but I shrug my shoulders and think 'each to their own'. Why some are camp and some present as hetero baffles me, does it mean the camp ones are more feminine? Tbh I don't really care but I do care when I have to alter my speech and way of life to cater for minorities. (By speech I do not mean offensive comments but having to remember to use the correct he, she, their, they etc. If someone presents to me as male I use he, if they present as female I use she, why should I have to twist myself in knots trying to remember to call a guy with a beard She?)
TheChimp I dunno, im guessing you need to ask someone who is gay and and high pitched. Dont think your a homophobe and if anyone is in todays world then there is something wrong with you
The statues are part of every country's history and its identity, too. Removing the statues will make the country look bland and generic.
It's much like those awful looking buildings in London and elsewhere that look like a sore thumb. You don't get any historical value out of it, but instead it's depressing to look at.
Anyway, if it's not your property don't destroy it.
Ok, you know i wasn't saying you are homophobic? i support gay people. i was saying if anyone doesn't support it has something wrong with them
And why would you not. The only time I have felt a bit uncomfortable was when myself and a male friend were invited to dinner at a gay female friend's place. At the last minute my friend backed out (laughing) so I had to go alone and tbh I couldn't wait to go home as she made her intentions very clear!
Join for free to get genuine deals, money saving advice and help from our friendly community
Chief Bargain Hunter
