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Keep Spending & Protect the Economy. Or Cut Spending and Destroy People's Jobs?

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Keep spending and protect the economy or cut spending and destroy people’s jobs? That’s the dilemma.

I have some sympathy with the view that online shopping during the corona virus is a bad thing. But I think it is a naïve, short- sighted view.

Many people don’t seem to realise that COVID-19 is here to stay - like Mumps, Measles and Winter Flu. It isn’t just going to go away once the restrictions are lifted. It is an infectious disease we need to learn to live alongside, and quickly.

Even if Britain was able to completely eradicate Coronavirus (impossible in fact) it would return within days once global air travel resumes.

The live animal markets in countries like China and Thailand still exist, and in other countries thousands of people gather together to pray ‘healing verses’ to protect themselves from the virus, like these 30,000 in Bangladesh. They are not exactly social-distancing are they? What we do here in the UK to slow the spread of coronavirus, is not necessarily practised elsewhere.

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The more people stop spending now, the worse the recession and mass unemployment will become. A primary cause of recession is a drop in consumer confidence and spending. There’s huge concern at Government level over the economic impact of the lockdown. The consequences will be enormous. The Treasury thinks that GDP could fall 14%+ in the next 3 months, leading to extreme poverty and ultimately to the premature deaths of more people than the virus will have claimed, from the worst recession in history.

If you stop spending, be very aware of the damage you are causing to the economy and to people’s jobs. More than 2 million people will lose their job this Spring, even more than that if we sit on our money.

Yes, shop workers, warehouse staff and delivery drivers need to be properly protected, but this needs to happen right now, not some time in the future when the economy is on its knees with many millions unemployed.

Interestingly I spoke to my postman yesterday, who saw me on the drive. I said you must be busy like at Christmas. He said actually there’s much less business post, and it’s helpful that these days people are ‘in’ to accept delivery, as it means he needs to fill in fewer cards. He said there are more packages and parcels of course, but that he can get about much faster with less traffic on the roads, and that he’s very happy to still have a job.

Johnny
2 months ago
What do you think of this?
Lynibis
Lynibis2 months ago

I wish there was a like button for posters of chat topics, you would have a like from me Johnny. A well thought out and persuasive argument.

As always there will be those who agree and those who disagree.

I have taken the view that if companies weren't anxious to keep trading online, they wouldn't, so no point in not ordering if it means workers are not getting the orders to keep them in work.

Having said that I very rarely order anything online but did use my recent LD voucher to order a new steam cleaner!

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Dennab
Dennab2 months ago

As I've said before, spend the money if companies delay dispatch. Distancing between people over a very short space of time has worked but it needs to happen everywhere, including warehouses and Royal Mail sorting offices.

Posting pictures showing big groups, insinuating that it is ok to do that is dangerous Johnny. Let's not be going down that road of comparing it to mumps etc either because you only have to look at the death rates compared to cases to see it is not the same.

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Johnny
Johnny
Original Poster
2 months ago

Posting pictures showing big groups, insinuating that it is ok to do that

Actually if you read my post again you will see I am saying IT IS NOT OK and the UK will be at risk in future from such people travelling by air.

I am comparing Coronavirus to other illnesses and diseases that we need to live alongside, that also don't go away.

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Dennab
Dennab2 months ago

Johnny OK. Not insinuating but trust me, some people will see that and think "if they can do it, why can't we?". Coronavirus is not a name by the way. It is a coronavirus and it's a lot worse than any other we've had in the past (again, figures) so we shouldn't be treating it the same way at all.

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Johnny
Johnny
Original Poster
2 months ago

Dennab

I quote:

Official names have been announced for the virus responsible for COVID-19 (previously known as “2019 novel coronavirus”) and the disease it causes.

The official names are:

Disease coronavirus disease (COVID-19)

Virus severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)

Source: World Health Organization

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/technical-guidance/naming-the-coronavirus-disease-(covid-2019)-and-the-virus-that-causes-it

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Dennab
Dennab2 months ago

Johnny I'm not getting into a debate about that. It is A coronavirus, not 'Coronavirus'. That's all. It's a bit like telling someone you have 'Car' when they ask what you drive. The common cold is a coronavirus. Let's not dwell on a simple error. Encouraging people to feel that it is their mission to prop up the UK economy instead of focussing on the short term distancing measures (that are working) is my main concern here.

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Johnny
Johnny
Original Poster
2 months ago

Dennab I think you should stop nitpicking!

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Dennab
Dennab2 months ago

Johnny I have. See first sentence. Read my reply and respond to that instead of avoiding it.

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Johnny
Johnny
Original Poster
2 months ago

Dennab Good.

Encouraging people to feel that it is their mission to prop up the UK economy instead of focussing on the short term distancing measures (that are working) is my main concern here.

What I am arguing is that we will achieve the best possible outcome by propping up the economy whilst also practising social distancing. Not one at the exclusion of the other. If you read my post again you will see I said:

'Yes, shop workers, warehouse staff and delivery drivers need to be properly protected, but this needs to happen right now, not some time in the future when the economy is on its knees with many millions unemployed'

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Dennab
Dennab2 months ago

Johnny I know - you mean well. I think you're going the wrong way about it though. The topic is very biased towards spending money being something people need to do right now with a title like 'Keep Spending & Protect the Economy'. We can all practice social distancing until the cows come home (or until we go crazy) in the comfort of our own houses but that's not happening in the warehouses as you have rightly pointed out. Why not focus on that first (like I have been) and then encourage spending afterwards? It is my view that a lot of people take news stories and topics like this at face value without actually reading the disclaimer in the middle. This is a website that is naturally full of people who like buying stuff so do you not think they're going to see this as a green light to go out and spend even before we have passed the worst of virus transmission across the UK?

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RuthSwain
RuthSwain2 months ago

At present I have no income and no way of getting an income. I'm self employed and I'm not able to get any help from the government. We're kind of paddling on mine and my husbands savings. All we're managing to do is keep a roof over our heads, bills paid and food for the family, no luxuries and I'm cancelling my 40th until the summer.

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Ann1984
Ann19842 months ago

I too wish for a like button Johnny always does good topics. Alot of businesses are going to go under the high Street is going to be worst then it is now before lockdown I have ordered a few things off line during lockdown and will continue too

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Dennab
Dennab2 months ago

Ann1984 If you are ordering off line, that's great! I assume you'll have to wait to collect when they open though. Support those businesses instead of people like Amazon who are online and doing very well indeed.

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Dennab
Dennab2 months ago

It's all about being popular on here isn't it? Let's like something because it's been well written. It is well written! Some of Boris Johnson's speeches are very well written. Does that mean everything that he says is right? At least one person who has commented openly admitted to being addicted to online shopping in a previous thread. A website full of people who love online shopping are naturally going to welcome any sign that their constant spending is the right thing to be doing aren't they?

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hspexy
hspexy2 months ago

It’s the scenario where a ’grumpy’ few seem to have dictated how things should be for everyone - like being in school when the teacher can’t be bothered to identify the trouble makers so he will put everyone on detention! I know plenty of key workers who are happy to continue working - in fact they’re thankful that they will keep busy during these times, and though they’re fully aware of the risks, they know what they’re doing keeps them going. We need to be proud of the fact we can keep going, return to some kind of normal, opposed to just sit and wait.

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Dennab
Dennab2 months ago

I fully agree measures are in place as a collective punishment just like school but how else do you deal with it? Isn't it the same with everything? As an example, there are people on the roads who can't drive, people who choose to drive irresponsibly and people who have advanced driving qualifications. The latter could drive quite safely in certain areas above the speed limit and never cause harm to anyone. They have to follow the same rules as the idiots in groups one and two though. Punishing the majority for the sake of the few is the only way to deal with something that kills people, isn't it? Another phrase I'll wheel out is give them an inch and they'll take a mile!

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MrsCraig
MrsCraig2 months ago

I have only ordered what I have needed too online. I am not someone who shops online just to pass the time and I don't buy anything that I don't need. At the moment our focus is on paying our bills and having enough food.

If guidelines are followed and steps put in place to make sure that workers are protected then yes it is fine for people to keep shopping, but plenty of places aren't doing this and workers are at risk. I know that some people are happy to still be working and are willing to put themselves at risk, such as key workers and it isn't fair for people to be unemployed due to this situation but unfortunately it is inevitable that it will happen and even once this is over it is going to take time for the economy to recover. Yes we need to protect the economy but we need to protect people too, so there needs to be a balance.

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Dennab
Dennab2 months ago

Exactly that and it all needs to be done in the correct order. What a lot of people seem to be missing is the fact those people may well be fine with putting themselves at risk and think it is only their own health they are affecting. The flaw in their plan is that every single person in this country could be carrying the virus without knowing. All it takes is one person who works in one of these overstretched warehouses to go in with that virus in their system, everybody 'catches' it but doesn't necessarily know. One of their colleagues then goes home to a spouse who works in a carehome...

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MrsCraig
MrsCraig2 months ago

Dennab exactly someone could be carrying it without realising and that is how it spreads.

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RnD194hd
RnD194hd2 months ago

If people don't spend then the economy crashes, if the economy crashes everything gets a lot worse and it won't just be coronavirus people are dying from. Lack of services and mass poverty would kill so many more people if the government have no money to spend/invest

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BonzoBanana
BonzoBanana2 months ago

Spending money on imported goods obviously doesn't help our economy we have a huge trade deficit and have created huge public sector debts because of it. Last time I looked every income tax payer has about £60k of debt on their head and servicing that debt takes about £2k of their taxes each year. As we lose money to the economy, assets are sold, companies become foreign owned etc and we worsen our situation. Clearly if someone was making major purchases like imported cars etc that is extremely bad for our economy we become more indebted to the country we purchased those goods from etc. If people bought UK sourced goods or services then that would be good for the economy but certainly not imported goods that is good for the economies of where those goods came from not ours.

Of course we have gone into this hugely expensive lockdown situation with pre-existing debt so we will be far more indebted at the end of it. How much it adds to our debt is unknown at this point but it will be huge. Sadly we will become much poorer and wonderful services like the NHS will be further eroded until the economy is better managed and we as a people understand the importance or running a successful economy that isn't reliant on borrowing and asset stripping.

Maybe this way at least people will have someone to blame (the Chinese) for their upcoming decline in living standards when in reality it was self-inflicted through all the debt caused by joining the EU and running a trade deficit and paying them huge sums for decades.

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loveglitches
loveglitches2 months ago

Just seen recent post and had argument with as she was saying do not shop online for things it is not necessary, I am rather annoyed with people saying to other not to buy or to buy , this pandemic got into others to tell people what to to do , people have to stop that ! If people can afford still and need things to buy they will buy as that it is why online shops are still allowed , of people lost their jobs and Cabot afford so they won’t , please people stop telling others what to do , it is difficult time to everyone and people will do what they can ! It is crazy how pandemic started people think they can tell others what to do , please everyone mind your own business and do what you feel to do ! Stop telling other what is right what is not ! it is like British voted brexit and not they need Romanians to come over and pick and pack wtf

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Ann1984
Ann19842 months ago

loveglitches spot on if it helps people buying let them be plus its keeping people in business no one will tell me what to do as I said in another post if they don't like it they can remove them selves we are on a money saving website and if a glitch was put on they be all jumping on that post

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BonzoBanana
BonzoBanana2 months ago

Surely at the moment we are told what not to do i.e. to prevent not infecting others with this virus which could lead to many more people dying. It isn't nice being told what to do but on the other side of the coin all actions have consequences. It's about balance. Most people to a degree rely on the actions of other people. I've seen people in the past who basically state I'll do as a I want or its my money etc but then complain that public services have failed them etc. They have an attitude that they expect very little of themselves but expect a lot of others. I think the reality is that attitude is so common now that a huge adjustment is going to to happen and people will face far more poverty in the future and only then will they come to realise the reality of their actions.

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AgnesFaludi
AgnesFaludi2 months ago

Companies cut the pays...so no one can spend as much as they did before.

And we are extend Pandemic with staying at home. We slow it down. Hoping someone will find the vaccine...

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