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Greed? On Furlough and Working a Second Job

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Is it just me or do you think that it's absolute greed that some people that are on furlough in one full-time job are taking another full-time job in the meantime and earning double bubble?

I hope they all get found out to be honest and have to pay all the money back.

I would invite your comments.

TheChimp
1 month ago
What do you think of this?
BusySparrowMum
BusySparrowMum1 month ago

I say do what you can. Some people don’t want to be sat doing nothing and others are maybe building a slush fund. If they are still furloughed now there’s a high probability they won’t have a job to go back to at the end of October!

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Ann1984
Ann19841 month ago

Greed if you ask me when people who lost their jobs could have had that second job people had been taking. I thought it was against the rules of furloughe to do a second job. Tax man will soon catch up with them

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TheChimp
TheChimp
Original Poster
1 month ago

BusySparrowMum Ann1984

It IS illegal.

It's basically like working full-time and claiming benefits.

People who do it should be ashamed.

Either leave your job and come off furlough, or don't work another job.

Everyone has a go at benefits cheats, but this is exactly the same thing.

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TractorGirl327
TractorGirl3271 month ago

It's not illegal at all.

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blacklabrador
blacklabrador1 month ago

Yup, it's greed in my eyes.

If you are taking money to stay away from your workplace it seems like fraud to then go elsewhere and work.

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TheChimp
TheChimp
Original Poster
1 month ago

blacklabrador It doesn't seem like fraud, it IS fraud!

It'll all catch up with them when HMRC realizes that they've been paying two lots of tax and pull them up about it.

They will probably get big fines, a criminal record and have to pay the money back.

I will have no sympathy whatsoever.

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bzortead
bzortead1 month ago

Can My Employees Work Elsewhere During Furlough Leave?

Taking a second job while on furlough leave is permitted, as confirmed in the guidance from the Government on 4th April 2020, however it must be subject to the terms of the contract between you and your staff

Until the beginning of August 2020, an employee who is currently on furlough cannot undertake work for the employer which has furloughed them. The ‘primary employer’ cannot require their furloughed employees to do any work for them or for any linked or associated business. Nor can a furloughed employee receive any remuneration for work done for their primary employer (obviously, this does not apply if furlough has ended before August 2020).

As of August 2020, furloughed employees will be able return to work for their primary employer on a part-time basis.

It is vitally important to remember that, if your staff are furloughed, they are still employed under their existing terms and conditions during furlough (with some obvious exceptions such as the requirement to attend work etc.).

Contractual Restrictions on Working Elsewhere

Any enforceable restrictions on working elsewhere during their employment will continue to apply in the same way they would if the employee was attending work for you. If your contracts of employment state that employees cannot work elsewhere without your consent, that rule still applies during furlough.

However, in the current circumstances, you may consider temporarily relaxing any such restrictions to allow employees to take up a role with a non-competing business with your prior consent. You may also want to consider temporarily revising the terms of their contract or perhaps redrafting it, if necessary.

Perhaps, more importantly, if there are ‘restrictive covenants’ prohibiting your employees from working for competitors, these will still apply during any period of furlough leave too.

Other Practical Considerations

Your staff should still be available to undertake training (for your organisation) during furlough leave. Realistically, this probably won’t take up much of their time, but it might be important if you have to train them on matters which are essential prior to their return. Therefore, an alternative job could ‘get in the way’.

Generally speaking, those on furlough leave that are allowed to accept a second job should only work outside of the hours they would normally work in the job that they have been furloughed from, unless you have provided prior consent to do otherwise.

In addition, when furlough leave ends, your furloughed employees will need to be able to return to work for you right away. Therefore, you may wish to consult and enter into a revised agreement with your employees in respect to gaining your consent before taking up any alternative employment; you may also require employees, if/when they start working for another employer, to confirm their furloughed status in Statement C of the PAYE starter check-list they complete for their new employer.

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TheChimp
TheChimp
Original Poster
1 month ago

bzortead You do understand that you do not get furlough pay from your original employer and only a wage from your new one if you take a new job?

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bzortead
bzortead1 month ago

TheChimp What if I have been furloughed and take on additional work?

If you have been furloughed from your normal job and you take on additional work with a new employer in the meantime, you will have two sources of employment income at the same time.

Your existing job, from which you have been furloughed, is likely to still be your main job and you should continue to receive some pay from it under the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme.

Your new job should therefore be treated as a second job so the appropriate box to tick on your Starter Checklist is box C. This will ensure that your earnings from your second job are taxed at the flat rate of 20% - we explain more in our factsheet on multiple jobs.

If you are on leave from your first job but are not being paid (perhaps because you were not on your employer's payroll at 19 March and therefore do not meet the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme criteria), read the comments below about zero-hours contracts, as a similar situation will apply to you.

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bzortead
bzortead1 month ago

It is a big tax mess, but yes, you can have two incomes (furlough + second job)

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TheChimp
TheChimp
Original Poster
1 month ago

bzortead I know what you're trying to say, but you can't earn from both.

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bzortead
bzortead1 month ago

TheChimp Yes, you can. "Technically" you should work different hours than your original job.

If your primary job is 8am to 5pm, you should work evening, etc.. But I am sure no one controls it.

Your PAYE will be a big mess and you will probably end up paying a lot of taxes.

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TheChimp
TheChimp
Original Poster
1 month ago

bzortead I did say in the op 2 full-time jobs.

I suppose that you could be employed in your original job from 9am-5pm and be on furlough and then start another job from 5pm-9am.

But you know what I was getting at 😉

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BusySparrowMum
BusySparrowMum1 month ago

I wonder how many commenting on here are actually in this situation 🤔

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Ann1984
Ann19841 month ago

BusySparrowMum and I wonder if they would admit it

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Pjran
Pjran1 month ago

I’ve heard some tradesmen are claiming government financial support but are still working, I assume cash in hand but I really don’t know. It’s totally immoral.

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Ann1984
Ann19841 month ago

Pjran I know of 2 that had received 2 cash lump sums off government and worked everyday

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Moonstone22
Moonstone221 month ago

There are so many people struggling out there with hardly any money. It is unfair that there are people out there who can barely put food on the table due to covid while others get double pay checks

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SarahBenne67061
SarahBenne670611 month ago

Have to agree - don’t think you should be entitled to furlough if you have a second income.. there isn’t an endless money pit in the UK, which some people seem to think there is! Furlough should only be for those who need it..

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G0501
G05011 month ago

Never crossed my mind people would do that. If they can live on furlough money then it's greed. If the furlough money doesn't covet bills and food, then I understand they might have to.

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TractorGirl327
TractorGirl3271 month ago

Sour grapes or jealousy?

You do realise that some people who are on furlough, even if getting 100% of their salary, AREN'T getting the same take-home pay as they did pre-CV because a large percentage of their monthly pay is made up of bonuses or commissions, so they have no choice but to take a second job if they want the same income. It's not illegal so long as you're working for a different company, not the one paying your furlough.

Also, can I point out that furlough pay isn't free money, you still have to pay all the usual taxes and NI payments on it and of course on any second job. Just as you do on the SEISS grant as well.

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TheChimp
TheChimp
Original Poster
1 month ago

TractorGirl327 As has been said before, if you normally work a job 9am-5pm and are on furlough, you are NOT allowed to work another job within those hours, and it definitely IS illegal if you do.

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TractorGirl327
TractorGirl3271 month ago

TheChimp But most people don't work 9-5 any more, do they? They do shift work, 7 days a week, all hours of the day. They can work outside those hours.

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TheChimp
TheChimp
Original Poster
1 month ago

TractorGirl327 All I am saying is that you can't work the same hours that you are contracted to in your first job. 9am-5pm is just an example.

Now when it comes to working different hours every day, I wouldn't know where someone would stand 🤔

My point is that people shouldn't be getting 80% of their wage on furlough from their original job and then getting 100% wage from working a new second job.

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BusySparrowMum
BusySparrowMum1 month ago

Yes I’m sure some people out there are taking advantage ... same immoral people that would probably commit benefit fraud or tax dodge but there will be people that are generally struggling on furlough pay which is just 80% of basic wage that may need to be topped up.

Being an essential worker I have worked all through the pandemic but not everyone had that option. Don’t tar everyone with the same brush, until you walk in their shoes don’t judge.

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TheChimp
TheChimp
Original Poster
1 month ago

BusySparrowMum I certainly am judging people who are taking 80% furlough from a full-time job and then 100% of a wage from a second full-time job (taking into consideration both jobs would be 9am-5pm, for example).

Do you seriously think that it's ok for people to do that?

Why not let people who are working full-time claim benefits as well? It's basically the same thing.

Some people are taking advantage and it's not right.

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BusySparrowMum
BusySparrowMum1 month ago

TheChimp how do you know people are taking a full time wage?

Like I said yes there probably will be a minority taking advantage but I’m sure most people are that have got a second job are working to top up what they’re losing by being furloughed. Bills aren’t being paid by the government, people do what they have to do. And as was pointed out previously it’s not actually against the law, if it was they would catch up with them through HMRC.

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TheChimp
TheChimp
Original Poster
1 month ago

BusySparrowMum As I have said several times, I am only talking about people on furlough and then working the same hours for a full wage. I think that they are taking advantage.

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