Is This Man the Devil Incarnate

BonzoBanana as always a measured response and I agree. I too have no love for politicians I don't understand how the world continues to spin with their greed, ineptitude and lack of knowledge of the folk they represent. They are all as bad as each other including MH. If everyone hates him so much just stop giving him a platform where he continues to show his inability to deal with interviews. He comes across as childlike in his attempts to justify and explain his actions.

BonzoBanana You are spot on B with reference to China, although i am still uncertain where covid originated from there , with the constant mutations which we have never seen the likes of before points to a more artificial source, but i doubt we will ever know the truth

As to politicians i think the biggest blunder made in history was by David Cameron and his referendum for Brexit

It has cost the country hundreds of billions in lost trade and credibility and this debt will be passed on to future generations, an absolute disgrace

All this while he is happily holidaying around the world making lots of money from his seminars and memoirs

telmel And evidence to back that up that it has lost us hundreds of billions in lost trade? That seems a greatly exaggerated figure.

Xenophon I wont get get into the politics of it X , it is not allowed here, and we all have our own opinions, but anyone that says Brexit has not caused a massive loss to the country is delusional

The politicians know it and never wanted Brexit in the first place, but had to respect the wishes of the people

The UK has suffered more than other countries due to a combination of Brexit, Covid, and now the Ukraine war with Russia

telmel Well sorry T but you already did in your previous post. I haven't got anything against anyone having a different opinion but when someone makes a claim of hundreds of billions lost it isn't unreasonable to want to see the proof behind that very bold claim. Otherwise people can throw out any outrageous figure willy nilly.

Xenophon Only the The Chancellor of the Exchequer will know the true figure X , mine was an estimate , but lets just say there has been a great economic downfall which has caused jitters in the financial markets

Xenophon Just watching the ITV news now, this is what is being said

'The UK economy will shrink and perform worse than other advanced economies, including Russia, as the cost of living continues to hit households, the International Monetary Fund has said. The IMF said the economy will contract by 0.6% in 2023, rather than grow slightly as previously predicted'

The UK is bottom of the table and the only country predicted to go into a recession, the economists are saying it is highly embarrassing

They quoted Brexit as one of the reasons this is happening

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telmel "the only country predicted to go into a recession", There's no mention that the previous two "predictions" from the IMF were extremely innacurate.

This from a very reliable source (Financial Times) indicates how unreliable IMF predictions are. www.ft.com/content/60581224-3335-11e8-b5bf-23cb17fd1498

davidstockport I know it is not set in stone D, i just quoted from the news tonight, Robert Peston said we might escape it, but it is worrying when our economy is bottom in the league below even Russia

davidstockport Exactly, I take what the IMF say with a big pinch of salt.

telmel I disagree completely about Brexit, the destruction of industry and the £1.8 trillion of debt all happened before the Brexit vote. The wealth creating industry was long gone before that vote. The pandemic added another layer of debt. It was madness for the UK to ever join the EU in the 70s, sterling was over-valued and we simply couldn't compete in that single market. To state leaving the EU created that debt is completely and utterly wrong and shown to be wrong easily by looking at the office of national statistics site which has comprehensive data. At the end of the day its not about how much we sell to the EU its the difference between how much we sell and how much we buy and that is where the damage was done by running a huge trade deficit with the EU for decades plus paying them huge sums and being forced to buy goods on EU terms when they use tariffs and other restrictions to prevent cheaper goods from outside the EU. So that is 3 reasons why the EU has been poison to the UK economy before you even add in the EU leglislation which was damaging to the UK economy. You can't expect just leaving the EU to suddenly magic away these huge debts and for industry to return in a puff of smoke. We left the EU in a hugely damaged state with horrendous debts.

Your viewpoint is so utterly wrong I can only suggest you take time to research what you are writing in future. Your comment makes no sense at all. The only way it makes sense is if you take a completely simplistic view and just think, things were slightly better before the brexit vote than after but that isn't how the real world works.

BonzoBanana You have your opinion B, i respect that, but from all the political programmes i have been watching recently about the economy there always seems to be an expert saying that leaving the EU is a contributary reason to the UKs economic downfall and the loss of credibility in the financial markets

Here is just one article backing this up i found from last november, there are more

www.theweek.co.uk/business/economy/958582/how-much-is-brexit-to-blame-for-the-current-financial-crisis

This is a section from the article

Michael Saunders, a former Bank of England Monetary Policy Committee member, told Bloomberg that the UK economy has been “permanently damaged” by Brexit

Of course you can say the experts are wrong , who knows, i am not a financial expert myself, but i have formed an opinion based on what i have read and seen

telmel Even that article you link to has contrasting views but the point is how industry was destroyed and how the huge level of debt was built up. As far as I can tell none of that is addressed in that article which is just a small article from November with no real detail.

This is where you need to go for real unbiased information.

www.ons.gov.uk/

It gives comprehensive information of EU contributions, debt etc and has historical information so you can see how debt was built up or how assets were lost etc. It has no bias at all its just statistics. There are no surprises here anyone can see industry is gone and when you go into a high street shop how little is made in the UK or how many UK brands are now foreign owned.

The EU has been devastating to our economy overall. It is our trading deficit over decades that has caused huge borrowing which is having to be serviced today at something like £3k of interest per year from everyone in the UK. This is a crippling level of debt. As a small country we have to protect our economy and protect what few assets we have. We have to accept the huge level of damage and debt that has been caused by EU membership and get on with a recovery plan for our economy just like Churchill and Macmillion did in 50s and 60s which built up industry and was highly successful. The combination of EU membership and the pandemic to a lesser extent has been as damaging to our economy as WW2 and we have to realise that. We have to rebuild industry and be food secure ultimately to pay back our debts and prosper. Paying the EU huge sums of money and running a large trade deficit with them is horrifically damaging to our country and no one should be as stupid to think we should rejoin the EU and head towards £4 or £5 trillion of debt. We must focus on what will improve our situation and that has to be running a trading surplus to create wealth to pay back our debts and reduce the burden of debt. There are lots of countries that have tackled their debt crisis, we have done it previously but there are good examples out there like Sweden and many others. You take charge of the economy and come up with policies to improve our situation.

The current Tory government is clueless unfortunately they are focused on growth and GDP which is a moronic approach to sorting out our problems as these unless carefully controlled can increase debt and a trading inbalance.

BonzoBanana Nice post B, you make some good points , and your last comment is spot on

Whatever the solution is for the future i think things have gone beyond redemption ,with a trillion and a half debt, neither you , i, or the "experts" really know what to do to get the country back on track , i really fear for the future of the younger generation

We need a series of miracles to put things right

telmel I'm not saying its easy but there are many countries that have done it including ourselves previously. It will mean leaving any free trading agreements because we need the protection of word trade tariffs to make our own goods cheaper and imported goods more expensive. We need to tax goods that are most damaging to our economy like imported cars and foreign holidays and that tax needs to be carefully used to increase our manufacturing base. We will need to come up with non-strike arrangements and create policies that create industrial harmony, company wide profit sharing and lower differentials between jobs. We cannot have people either management or unions that destroy companies. It's not an impossible task at all. Not only will growing and making more of the products we use ourselve hugely benefit our economy but it will also be much better for the environment. The issue we have today is a population determined to destroy our own economy by their huge level of imports and politicians who have lost all connection with real world economics and who are often focused on trivia in my opinion.

BonzoBanana If you want to run in an election B i will be voting for you

Imnotcheap I must admit I didn't notice what he was wearing, except for a dark suit lol. He comes across as a silly billy but I just can't abide seeing someone constantly being derided and scorned when, as far as I am concerned, he has paid his dues.

Midnightflower I definitely agree with you but won't say more as I don't want to be shut down for being political.

Midnightflower All i can say M is cabbage

jdgirl I certainly do, that's why I am into forgiveness and redemption. Mind you very difficult in the case of people like the one you mentioned.